Comments on: So Tiller Is Dead http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/ The eclectic ramblings of jonolan Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:56:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Abortion Has Value | Reflections From a Murky Pond http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-30334 Abortion Has Value | Reflections From a Murky Pond Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:46:29 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-30334 [...] Roeder. It especially needs more heroic martyrs such as Mr. Roeder who sacrificed himself in order save countless babies from Late-Term Abortion aka Partial-Birth [...] [...] Roeder. It especially needs more heroic martyrs such as Mr. Roeder who sacrificed himself in order save countless babies from Late-Term Abortion aka Partial-Birth [...]

]]> By: Leftist Terrorist Teen | Reflections From a Murky Pond http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-11841 Leftist Terrorist Teen | Reflections From a Murky Pond Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:15:22 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-11841 [...] Roeder, who killed the notorious abortionist George Tiller in a targeted execution, was branded as a horrific domestic terrorist by the Liberals and the media [...] [...] Roeder, who killed the notorious abortionist George Tiller in a targeted execution, was branded as a horrific domestic terrorist by the Liberals and the media [...]

]]> By: jonolan http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-11463 jonolan Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:30:57 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-11463 Nabiha, To me your argument seems flawed and contradictory. You say murder, no matter what, is wrong but then you claim that killing a late term child isn't murder. While I could understand that argument in the early stages of pregnancy - <em>, not agree with</em> - I don't see how you can make that argument for a 3rd trimester baby. It's not black and white though, true. I can understand and almost condone killing a doomed child to prevent its suffering. Sadly, many of these children are killed because they're malformed in someway and they're being so would "cause mental harm" to the mothers. I don't think we're going to agree on this point at all, Nabiha. Nabiha,

To me your argument seems flawed and contradictory. You say murder, no matter what, is wrong but then you claim that killing a late term child isn’t murder. While I could understand that argument in the early stages of pregnancy – , not agree with – I don’t see how you can make that argument for a 3rd trimester baby.

It’s not black and white though, true. I can understand and almost condone killing a doomed child to prevent its suffering. Sadly, many of these children are killed because they’re malformed in someway and they’re being so would “cause mental harm” to the mothers.

I don’t think we’re going to agree on this point at all, Nabiha.

]]> By: Nabiha Meher http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-11460 Nabiha Meher Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:45:47 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-11460 Murder is wrong, no matter what in my opinion. I'm very shocked and saddened by this. I also think that this isn't as black and white... some people have late term abortions for some genuinely heart breaking reasons. The Guardian reported the case of a couple who aborted in the eight month because they found out they were having siamese twins with lots of complications. The chances of the children surviving were very low, and if they did, they would have been disfigured and had a very, very low quality of life. I've read heart breaking stories of women who found out very late in their pregnancy that they were carrying children with terrible diseases who would die within months so they chose to abort rather than carry the child to term and watch it die. Some things are not predictable within the first trimester. Here in the UK abortions are legally allowed under any circumstances up till 24 weeks. At the end of the day, it IS the woman's right to choose and it IS a foetus and not a baby that she is carrying in her own body. I know people who have siblings who are very ill and have been physically and/or mentally disfigured. They have watched their suffering and they too have suffered very much. They are very much in favour of abortions, no matter what the term and I can't blame them. I know of bipolar women who have terrible breakdowns and manic episodes while pregnant, and the chances of them having really, really bad post-partum depression or mania is very high. Because some of these problems don't arise until well into the pregnancy, they do go ahead with it at first. Some of their doctors also then encourage them to abort. Many people feel that living a life full of complications where one is not even aware of oneself as a human is not worth living at all. On a separate but related note, I know some Muslim women who have had abortions. Even though they were really careful, accidents do happen and no method of birth control is 100% effective. Having the child is just not an option. Getting married wasn't an option either. Some would have definitely been killed and most would have been ostracised. Their child would have suffered. Some HAD TO wait to leave the country. Getting a visa takes ages. Getting a back-door abortion that could be really dangerous was a risk they just weren't willing to take. So some had to wait until late term (until they could leave the country), which broke their hearts and really took a toll on them. Years later some of them are still distressed about it, but are grateful to the doctors who were able to help them. As a woman, I don't know what I would do if I found out very late in my pregnancy that I was carrying a child who I would have to watch die/ill/suffering. I don't know if I would make the decision to abort late term. I hope it never happens, but it not something I can be judgemental about. Murder is wrong, no matter what in my opinion. I’m very shocked and saddened by this. I also think that this isn’t as black and white… some people have late term abortions for some genuinely heart breaking reasons. The Guardian reported the case of a couple who aborted in the eight month because they found out they were having siamese twins with lots of complications. The chances of the children surviving were very low, and if they did, they would have been disfigured and had a very, very low quality of life. I’ve read heart breaking stories of women who found out very late in their pregnancy that they were carrying children with terrible diseases who would die within months so they chose to abort rather than carry the child to term and watch it die. Some things are not predictable within the first trimester. Here in the UK abortions are legally allowed under any circumstances up till 24 weeks. At the end of the day, it IS the woman’s right to choose and it IS a foetus and not a baby that she is carrying in her own body. I know people who have siblings who are very ill and have been physically and/or mentally disfigured. They have watched their suffering and they too have suffered very much. They are very much in favour of abortions, no matter what the term and I can’t blame them. I know of bipolar women who have terrible breakdowns and manic episodes while pregnant, and the chances of them having really, really bad post-partum depression or mania is very high. Because some of these problems don’t arise until well into the pregnancy, they do go ahead with it at first. Some of their doctors also then encourage them to abort. Many people feel that living a life full of complications where one is not even aware of oneself as a human is not worth living at all.
On a separate but related note, I know some Muslim women who have had abortions. Even though they were really careful, accidents do happen and no method of birth control is 100% effective. Having the child is just not an option. Getting married wasn’t an option either. Some would have definitely been killed and most would have been ostracised. Their child would have suffered. Some HAD TO wait to leave the country. Getting a visa takes ages. Getting a back-door abortion that could be really dangerous was a risk they just weren’t willing to take. So some had to wait until late term (until they could leave the country), which broke their hearts and really took a toll on them. Years later some of them are still distressed about it, but are grateful to the doctors who were able to help them.
As a woman, I don’t know what I would do if I found out very late in my pregnancy that I was carrying a child who I would have to watch die/ill/suffering. I don’t know if I would make the decision to abort late term. I hope it never happens, but it not something I can be judgemental about.

]]> By: jonolan http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-11459 jonolan Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:13:03 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-11459 As much as I dislike Garafalo, she made a valid point with that one singular statement. It would definitely be a better strategy to eliminate the abortionists' argument that way. I'm just not sorry that Tiller is dead and family hurt and harrowed. Unlike the bulk of the Pro-Abortion types, who truly believe that aborting a early term fetus isn't murder because the fetus isn't yet person, Tiller specialized in late term abortions of often viable children. There's little in the way of excuse for that sort of act. I'm not really happy he's dead either though. I feel a vague sense of sadness and disappointment, the reasons for which I'm still unsure of. As much as I dislike Garafalo, she made a valid point with that one singular statement. It would definitely be a better strategy to eliminate the abortionists’ argument that way.

I’m just not sorry that Tiller is dead and family hurt and harrowed. Unlike the bulk of the Pro-Abortion types, who truly believe that aborting a early term fetus isn’t murder because the fetus isn’t yet person, Tiller specialized in late term abortions of often viable children. There’s little in the way of excuse for that sort of act.

I’m not really happy he’s dead either though. I feel a vague sense of sadness and disappointment, the reasons for which I’m still unsure of.

]]> By: zhann http://blog.jonolan.net/politics/so-tiller-is-dead/#comment-11458 zhann Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:35:19 +0000 http://blog.jonolan.net/?p=8243#comment-11458 While your logic is hard to argue, Tiller is far from the pinnacle of humanity, anti-abortionists are often on the other extreme. As Janine Garofalo once said, those that are so against abortion should adopt a different policy, the "budy system". Each anti-abortion activist should begin an adoption campaign where they openly acknowledge that they will raise the unwanted children. While this will not likely help a great deal, they would make their point a lot better and it would be substantially more positive than burning down clinics or killing doctors. While abortions are a horrendous act, I can't imagine a world where it was outlawed. The shear numbers of abortions performed is astounding, if most of those children survived the problems would be substantial. While I am not trying to justify the act, I would prefer to see an alternative solution rather than violence against those that choose to abort. <a href="http://www.mizozo.com/world/06/2009/01/so-tiller-is-dead.html" rel="nofollow">stolen</a> While your logic is hard to argue, Tiller is far from the pinnacle of humanity, anti-abortionists are often on the other extreme. As Janine Garofalo once said, those that are so against abortion should adopt a different policy, the “budy system”. Each anti-abortion activist should begin an adoption campaign where they openly acknowledge that they will raise the unwanted children. While this will not likely help a great deal, they would make their point a lot better and it would be substantially more positive than burning down clinics or killing doctors.

While abortions are a horrendous act, I can’t imagine a world where it was outlawed. The shear numbers of abortions performed is astounding, if most of those children survived the problems would be substantial. While I am not trying to justify the act, I would prefer to see an alternative solution rather than violence against those that choose to abort.

stolen

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