So you want to kill health care reform and all of its benefits because of potential rationing (still buying into that whole “death panel” scare, I see) and the raping of Medicare? Please don’t tell me that you are also in favor of entitlement reform and cutting government spending then. Please don’t do that.

I don’t know that you can call Obama and Congress stupid for trying to put forward comprehensive reform. Foolish, overzealous, or idealistic perhaps, but I don’t think it is stupid. I mean, look: the bills passed in both the House and the Senate. It’s not like this thing failed even though all the Republicans and a bunch of the shooting-themselves-in-the-feet Democrats act like it has. The issue is that a lot of these things need all the elements to be there to work. You can’t just say “no more pre-existing conditions” but not have the mandate, for example, otherwise insurance rates will skyrocket and it will be only affordable for the extremely rich.

Again, I’m not saying it’s perfect. The broad strokes are still there from Obama’s campaign. I never said it was a perfect mirroring. But it surely isn’t some vastly different piece of legislation completely unrecognizable from what was advertised in 2008. Either way – the point of me bringing it up was as evidence that Obama isn’t just doing what he wants now that he’s in power; I think that while there are differences between the actual legislation and what Obama campaigned on, they’re similar enough to debunk the notion that he’s simply using his power to push some radical, surprising agenda.

And I find it interesting that you should consider all of the issues I listed as liberal, partisan points. I think it’s safe to say that people on both sides of the divide find aspects of the Stupak Amendment, the messiness of the whole process, the Republicans staunch opposition, the Democrat leadership’s ineptitude, and the blatant money deals with senators for their support to be rather upsetting and unfavorable. Perhaps it’s you that’s seeing it through a strictly partisan lens.

Face it, Mason; for a variety of reasons the bulk of Americans do not want ObamaCare as it stands now. Why else would they need to do it under the guise of a budget reconciliation bill?

But, as you said, this should not be misconstrued as meaning that people don’t want reform. We just differ in our beliefs as to how reform should be made and whether or not ObamaCare even constitutes healthcare reform.

I do find it interesting, however, that in the course of your argument against partisanship that you cited only leftist, partisan points in your list of what Americans disagree with in ObamaCare.

I don’t think that representatives should just do whatever they want when they get into office nor did I say anything like that. Obama won the election by a landslide through a campaign that had – yes, among other things like getting out of Iraq, closing Gitmo, fixing the economy, ending torture, etc. – a strong plan for sweeping health care reform that is currently in the Senate Bill almost exactly how he described it in 2008. This isn’t a case of the elected government doing something radically different from what the people want.

I don’t recall ever saying that Bush wasn’t my president. True, I didn’t vote for him, but I did – like many others – rally behind him after 9/11 and supported the invasion of Afghanistan. From there on, he and I were rarely on the same wavelength.

Americans are unhappy with the process, with the partisanship, with the lack of public option, with the Stupak Amendment, with the deals given to certain senators, with the total lack of leadership from the Democrats and the staunch opposition from the Republicans. There will be books written about this, I’m sure. But don’t misconstrue this as meaning that people don’t want reform. In fact, this poll show that over 60% still want comprehensive reform: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2010/02/americans_spread_the_blame_whe.html.

Also – how passing legislation with a 59-41 majority is even remotely considered jamming it down the throats of dissenting Americans shows just how ridiculously partisan our political climate is today. Republicans make it sound like this would be such an egregious use of power to enact a bill that almost no Americans want. The Republicans lost. Their ideas lost. This time around, at least. You say that the party with a 59 vote majority shouldn’t push forward with legislation they were elected by a majority of American voters. Well, you say that now. What about when that party is the Republican Party? Should they just not do anything because the minority party doesn’t want them to?

I know you don’t like the HCR bill. But it’s immature to just sit back and call Obama childish. I mean, how does that help the situation any? It just inflames it, doesn’t it? Simply disagreeing with your worldview doesn’t make someone stupid.

Firstly, look at the polling source I use. It is an aggregate of all the other polls out there and therefor normalizes for those polls’ biases.

Secondly, I do not believe that we live in a direct democracy; nobody has since Athens fell. Yet, I do believe that our representatives’ actions should reflect the will of the people. ObamaCare obvious does not do that.

You seem to believe that once a politician gets elected they get to do whatever they want as if it’s a single battle that determines the fate of the nation every few years.

Tell me were you one of the ones saying, “not my president” about Bush and, if so, how would you feel if I said the same thing about Obama?

The rating of ObamaCare is even lower, with only (as of today) 39.8% approving of it.

And Congress? Their approval rating is only 18.1%!

So, yes. They should be proper stewards of a representative democracy and listen to the people.

I understand that you don’t agree with the Senate bill, but you also didn’t vote for Obama or the Democratic majority in Congress (I’m assuming, so please correct me if I’m mistaken) so you will most certainly disagree with most of their policies. I just don’t know how that makes them childish or deaf unless simply not agreeing with your worldview is childish and deaf. To which I’d say you’re the one being childish. They’re just doing a job they were elected to do.